Peter Dupont 2007 BGT interview record

Peter Dupont: hereinafter referred to as Peter

Baristaguildoftaiwan.org: hereinafter referred to as BGT

BGT:What inspired you to be a roaster in coffee industry?

How did you get into this business?

Peter:There were two steps in this. Firstly back in 1998 I had my first cup of Specialty Coffee which really opened my eyes. Before having tasted Specialty Coffee when some one said'oh this is a nice cup of coffee' I couldn't really remember it to be so much better than the other coffees I had tasted. But in 1998 I by luck got a job at Dromedar Kaffebar in Bergen, Norway who had Specialty Coffee from Solberg & Hansen. They gave me the first tasting of Specialty Coffee and the flavour impressions made a huge impact on me. There were so many different flavours in the coffees from the different countries that Solberg & Hansen had roasted, that a new world opened up to me. From this experience I was' hooked on Specialty Coffee'. After I came back from Norway to Denmark I was hired at Estate Coffee to open the Estate Coffee Shop. This was the next step towards becoming a roaster. At that time all Estate Coffee was wage roasted at a larger Roasting Company. We at Estate Coffee worked a lot with the Roasting Company, but it was a hard time getting them to roast as we preferred. Luckily the Roasting Company was sold to an even bigger Swedish Roasting company at the same time as I was finished with my university studies. Therefore we decided to open our own Roastery where I became the roastmaster. So my way into roasting was partly a few lucky circumstances and partly the impression that Solberg & Hansens coffees had given me.

I'll talk about it in two stages.

The first stage dates back to 1998, and my first experience of boutique coffee was an eye-opener. Before that, when I heard someone say, "Oh, this is a good cup of coffee", I couldn't understand the difference between this cup of coffee and the one I had before. What's so good about it? How good is it? But in 1998 I was lucky to be able to work in Dromedar Kaffebar, Bergen, Norway, where there is a boutique coffee served by Solberg & Hansen roasting company. Dromedar gave me my first taste experience and flavor impression of boutique coffee, which had a great impact on me. The different features of the boutique coffee baked by Solberg & Hansen have really opened up a new coffee field for me. This work experience made me indulge in the world of boutique coffee.

Then I returned to Denmark to be employed by Estate Coffee, which was the second stage, and I began to move on to baking. At that time, all Estate Coffee's coffee was handled by another larger roaster, but it didn't dominate the roasting of our favorite type of coffee. Coincidentally, the company was bought by another big company in Sweden, and I finished my college studies at the same time, so we decided to open our own bakery, and I was in charge of the baking homework. So, my baking path is partly due to lucky opportunities, and partly due to the enlightenment of Spoch.

BGT:Please describe the espresso blend that your company won 1st place in the World Barista Championship in 2006?

Talk about the formula for your company to win the 2006 WBC championship.

Peter:The espressoblend that Klaus and I made for his presentation at WBC 2006 came from a wish to make an espresso with less bitterness and more pure coffee aroma. Klaus came in 3rd in WBC 2004 and since that day we started preparing for his presentation two years later. At that time we had La Minita from Tarrazu in Costa Rica in our coffee menu at Estate Coffee and we were very impressed by the cleanliness and pure coffee aroma from this coffee. The problem was that the acidity got too sharp when prepared for espresso and the body not intense enough. Therefore we started looking out for some coffee that was not washed to supplement the La Minita. The big challenge was that we wanted to roast very light to avoid unnecessary bitterness and carbony tones. But when we roasted this light all the defects showed themselves much clearer in the cup. So we needed to find a coffee that was not washed but was still very clean in the coffee flavour. This was really difficult! After we had tried a lot of coffees none of them clean enough we traveled to Cerrado in Brazil to the Daterra farm. We cupped a lot of their very nice coffees and afterwards we brewed them as espresso. When we came to the Daterra Sweet Collection in the espresso cupping we were astonished-this coffee had a tremendous sweetness and body but still it was very clean. It was that sweet and creamy in the mouthfeel that it almost seem like drinking a kind of pure coffee cream (not anything like Baileys!)! So we had found our not washed coffee in the Pulped Natural Daterra Sweet Collection. But as with a good dessert the sweet cream is best combined with a fresh and aromatic flavour. In this way we combined the Daterra and La Minita coffees to get a very sweet and clean espresso with a creamy mouthfeel from Daterra and liveliness and delicate aromas from La Minita. Of course developing the right roasting strategy for this coffee was at least as long a story. In short we roasted the beans separately because they were both so refined in their own way that roasting them together made no point. We roasted them very light only to the beginning of the second pop (La Minita a bit longer into the second pop).

When Klaus and I developed 2006 WBC blend, we wanted to focus on the least bitterness and the most pure fragrance. Since Klaus was third runner-up in WBC in 2004, we have been preparing for it for two years. At that time, Estate Coffee had already started selling La Minita, and we were very impressed by its clean texture and pure aroma. The problem is that the sour taste on the espresso is too sharp, and the body is not strong enough, so we started looking for other non-washed beans to complement La Minita. This is a big challenge because we want the baking degree to be very shallow to avoid unnecessary bitterness and carbon taste, but usually such a shallow baking degree will also make all the flavor defects appear more clearly in the cup. So we not only need an unwashed coffee, but also have the characteristics of dry flavor. It's really hard. After a series of choices and attempts, they all failed in the lack of cleanliness. Finally, we came to Daterra Farm in Cerrado District, Brazil, where we tested a lot of good beans and also tested them with espresso. We were amazed by the performance of Daterra Sweet Collection in the cup testing. it not only has amazing sweetness and thick body, but also has a very dry texture, the whole sweet and creamy mouth feel, like drinking a kind of pure coffee cream. So we finally found the beans we wanted, and that was Pulped Natural Daterra Sweet Collection. In general, in dessert cooking, it is a good way to use sweet cream to combine fresh, fragrant flavors. We also use this way to combine these two kinds of coffee to get the sweet and dry espresso, which not only has the creamy touch of Daterra, but also has the delicate and vibrant aroma of La Minita. Of course, the process of developing the right baking strategy is a long time, in short, we choose the way of separate baking and recombination, the landing point of Daterra is at the beginning of the second explosion, and Minita is a little deeper.

BGT:What advice and tips do you have for a roaster who just getting start?

Do you have any suggestions or tips for those who have just started baking?

Peter:Get good a cupping! In my point of view cupping is fundamental for every roaster. When you know how to cup you can evaluate what you are doing at the roaster and then get better from experimenting with blends, roast profiles and strategies.

Do a good job of cup testing! In my opinion, cup testing is a necessary basic skill for every baker. Learning the cup test shows that you have the ability to evaluate recipe blending, baking curves, and planning baking strategies.

BGT:You are a great roaster and also a well experienced barista, what kind of ability do you think a roaster should have? And how to learn? And how a roaster communicate with a barista?

You are a good baker and an experienced barista. What abilities do you think a baker should have? How do you study? How to communicate with barista?

Peter:This is really a difficult question-I think that you need a lot of different skills to be a roaster. Cupping is fundamental but as a roaster it is also important to know your beans and your equipment. But I also think it is equally important to know your coffee colleagues! One of the great differences between coffee and other gourmet products especially like wine is that it is not 'one house' making the product. For instance in the wine business' the producer' is often just 'one house' i.e. The Wine yard. And they more or less are entirely responsible for the quality that the consumer experiences. As a roaster you are 'one house' in the chain of people contributing to the quality that the consumer experiences. If you as a roaster want's to give the consumer a good experience you are dependent on the other people in the coffee chain to also work for the same goal. Therefore you should also at best make personal relations to the baristas brewing your coffee and the farmers growing your coffee. In the long run I believe this will be the best way to secure an ongoing qualitative development of Specialty Coffee.

This is really a difficult question ~ I think it takes many different skills and abilities to be a baker. The cup test is the most basic, but also to understand the coffee beans themselves and the baking equipment used, I think it is equally important to understand your colleagues. One big difference between coffee and other food cuisine is that coffee cannot be made by one shop or by one person. For example, in a "wine company", most of the work is usually focused on one person or a very small number of people, who are fully responsible for the quality of the product and the feelings of consumers. The coffee industry is different. If a baker wants to give consumers a good sensory experience, then you must rely on everyone in this coffee circle who strives for the same goal. Therefore, you must try your best to connect the coffee grower with the brewer. In the long run, I believe this is the best way to ensure the continuous improvement of the quality of boutique coffee.

BGT:What kind of single overriding flavor in the espresso is the worst? And what kind of flavor is your priority choice?

Which flavor is the last disadvantage you think should appear in espresso? And which flavor will you choose first?

Peter:Of course you can sometimes find defects that are very unpleasant but except of these to much roasty bitterness is for me killing the nice experience of espresso. If the espresso is very bitter the nice natural fragile aromas are gone and the acidity is usually also gone.

Of course, you sometimes find some very unpleasant defective flavors, but personally, too much bitterness caused by baking can be a killer of espresso delicacy.

If the espresso is very bitter, then the delicate natural aroma will disappear, and the sour taste will usually disappear.

BGT:Which one is your favorite single origin coffee? Did you use it as one of your espresso blend?

Should espresso blend designed for different purpose, for example: straight shot or for cappa? Can an espresso designed for dual-used blend?

Your favorite cup of coffee? Will you use it in the recipe? Do you think it is necessary to design different recipes for different needs, or do you think it is suitable for both drinking and adding milk?

Peter:As coffee for French press I am a huge Kenya fan! Especially the intense floral aromas but also the crisp acidity and powerfull body of good Kenyan coffee is to me unique!

Personally I think you do not need to make different espressoblends for different purpose. I prefer to have an espresso that is perfect as a straight shot because this will also be good in cappuccinoes. But I know that a lot of people do not agree on this and especially a lot of cafe or coffee shop owners tend to prefer a coffee that is still strong even though they put half a liter of milk on top of a single shot. Generally I believe that if you have good baristas you will get extracted a lot of flavour and this will go nicely through the milk. If people want a coffee with half a liter of milk it is because they don't like the taste of the coffee! All that said of course people have different flavour preferences also your customers and therefore you might need to have different espressoblends to suit their preferences.

With French pressure, I am definitely a crazy Kenyan lover, especially the strong floral aroma, crisp acidity and thick body of good Kenyan coffee are unique.

From my personal point of view, I don't think you need to deliberately mix different espresso recipes for different uses. I would prefer those formula beans that taste good just by drinking them alone, because they usually perform very well on Cabo. But I know there are a lot of people who don't agree with this, especially since many coffee shop owners like to mix coffee with stronger flavor, even though they always add 500cc milk to torture an espresso single. I always believe that a good barista has the ability to extract enough coffee flavor to match the milk perfectly. I think he likes coffee with a lot of milk because he doesn't like the taste of coffee itself. Of course, everyone always has different tastes, and so do your customers, so you may need different formula beans to satisfy your customers.

BGT:We know Estate Coffee is a famous micro-roastery, coffee shop and wholesaler and you guys won great reputations,could you give some suggestion for the roaster in Taiwan?

We know that your company is already a well-known small roaster, coffee shop and wholesaler, and you have received quite good reviews. Can you give some advice to the homogeneous industry in Taiwan?

Peter:Make sure that the management have well defined ideas of where to go with specialty coffee-what are the ambitions, the goals and the strategies. I believe David Schomer said that whatever idea the management/owner of your business have regarding specialty coffee it will work its way through the business, so you might as well make it very clear for what reason your in it! Is it a passionate drive for the love of coffee or is it because there seems to be good profits in specialty coffee or something in between? And then finally a good dialog with and respect for the people who are standing daily with their hands on the coffee is essential, because they are the ones making the quality!

Operators should have a clear grasp of the trend of boutique coffee, with ambition, goals and business strategies. I believe what David Schomer said: the operator's attitude towards boutique coffee will affect your business model. So you'd better figure out why you're in this business? Is it because of a pure love of coffee? Or is it because boutique coffee is profitable? Or is it something else? Finally, we should give absolute respect to those who stand on their posts to make coffee every day, because after all, they are the guarantee of quality!

BGT:In your concept, what is "slow roast" and how to define? What's the benefit of an espresso blend from slow roast?

In your opinion, what is "slow speculation"? How do you define it? What do you think is the benefit of slow frying to espresso blend?

Peter:Well I guees the general concept of slowroast is related to the overall time the coffee stays in the roaster and it would probably generally be between 10 and 20 minutes. Just from that definition you cannot say anything general regarding the cup quality. You need to look at the roast profile more closely. You need to find the right development speed for different stages of the roast. The most important being the time from the 1st pop end until you take the coffee out of the roaster. If this is done good you will get a lot more sweetness, more distinct fragile aromas and a harder bean than if you "speedroast". The phases before 1st pop and also the cooling phase is important to control as well-if your cooling time is too long you can still bake the coffee even though you did a perfect roast from 1st pop until you took it out of the roaster.

I think the general concept of slow frying is related to the total baking time, which is usually between 10 and 20 minutes. From this definition you can't relate to the flavor you actually drink. You need to monitor the baking curve more closely to determine the correct speed of development required for each baking stage. After the end of the first explosion, to the end of the whole baking, this is the most important part. This section is well done so that you can get more sweetness and more distinct fine scents than the fast baking mode. The cooling process before entering the first explosion and at the end of baking is also important. If the cooling time is too long, the beans are still self-baking, which will waste all your previous efforts.

BGT:How about The 2006 WBC champion effect Estate coffee? In business point view, did you think a roaster company should attend WBC?

What impact does the 2006 WBC champion bring to your company? From the point of view of business noodles, do you think baking companies should participate in WBC?

Peter:The 2006 WBC Championship gave some media attention to Estate which also hade an effect on the sales. This hopefully never should be the sole motivation for attending the WBC, but of course there is a potential marketing effect I gaining such a title. Even though the news value of a Danish World Barista Champion is quite worn out these years;-)

The 2006 WBC champion brings some attention to Estate Coffee that is big or small, which has some sales effect. I certainly hope this is not the only motivation for joining the WBC, although getting this title does have a potential sales effect. What's more, the news value of Denmark winning the championship has been exhausted in recent years.